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Neanderthal Origin of Iberian Cave Art (Science)

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For the scientific article “U-Th dating of carbonate crusts reveals Neanderthal origin of Iberian cave art” visit Science (www.sciencemag.org) Featuring (in order of appearance): Dr Dirk Hoffmann Department of Human Evolution, Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology Dr Chris Standish Department of Archaeology, University of Southampton Professor Alistair Pike Department of Archaeology, University of Southampton Professor Paul Pettitt Department of Archaeology, Durham University Professor João Zilhão Department of Prehistory, Universitat de Barcelona Research: D. L. Hoffmann, C. D. Standish, M. García-Diez, P. B. Pettitt, J. A. Milton, J. Zilhão, J.J. Alcolea-González, P. Cantalejo-Duarte, H. Collado, R. de Balbín, M. Lorblanchet, J. Ramos-Muñoz, G.-Ch. Weniger, and A. W. G. Pike. Camera: Dirk Hoffmann, Chris Standish, Alistair Pike, João Zilhão, Jeff Veitch, Kate Rogers. Video editing: Kate Rogers. Photography:  Chris Standish, Dirk Hoffmann, Alistair Pike, Hipolito Collado. Illustrations: H. Breuil (1913); D.L. Hoffmann et al. (2018). Music: Adapted ‘Drone Lemon’ ‘Lick Stick’ ‘Maisie Dreamer’ & ‘Periodicals’ © by Blue Dot Sessions licensed under CC BY-NC 4.0, courtesy the Free Music Archive (http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Blue_Dot_Sessions/) This research was funded by the Natural Environment Research Council (UK); the National Geographic Society (USA); the Max Planck Society (Germany); the Research Group IT622-13 of the Basque Government, and a Royal Society Wolfson Research Merit Award (to AWGP).
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Text Comments (79)
Daniel Francis (1 month ago)
Professor Alistair looks right at home.
Talisman Skulls (2 months ago)
Look at the facts. Neanderthals are not extinct. They are known as Aborigines in Australia who are known to have migrated there over 65,000 years ago, share the same cultural expression as is in this "evidence, " use the same art styles and symbolism, and these paintings are the same age as the Aborigines rock shelter called Madjedbebe with relics that dated back 65,000 years. Also their bone structures are nearly identical. So the bottom line is Neanderthals are not a "separate species." They are simply a branch of human beings.
Scott D (3 months ago)
I've always imagined that the beautifully done animal paintings we find at sights such as Lascaux were done by Neanderthals and as soon as the "smoking gun" is discovered the entire paleoanthropological community would have to sit down and take a moment to collect itself. Then we find out that interaction with Neanderthals brought art, religion and even sophisticated speech to homo sapiens. I know this is a little far fetched but it is very interesting to contemplate.
matthew bai (3 months ago)
1:42 he look like a Neanderthal ...
John Yep (6 months ago)
you have to think that traits emerged from somewhere. the desire for self expression, to use symbolism to represent perceived extant forces, to make art is a powerful way to relate to your environment. and those darkest realms that we prefer to submerge that we have ample evidence of, they too came from our evolutionary past. otherwise how would mankind have come up with a certain behavior?
Super Tele TV (6 months ago)
great discovery!
Cannibal713 (8 months ago)
I'm not impressed. A homo sapien toddler can do better.
MrCrazy123 123 (9 months ago)
The painting depicts farming, animals seperated into pens and the dots depict plantation in a seperate erea.
Foxglove963 (9 months ago)
Nobody knows what it means, says Dr Dirk Hoffmann. What a sucker, he should be ashamed of himself. The "ladder" is a symbol of higher (or deeper) consciousness, Neolithic people also used it, and the drugged writers of the bible, where it is Jacob's ladder. Entoptics appear universally (wherever one lives on the planet) in the initial stages of trance.
sixtynine999 (10 months ago)
Here's my crazy theory on the image - it's a cross section of an ark (see the keel shape at the bottom), with multiple floors housing animals. The dots at the top are rain, that's being kept out by the roof. And, like someone else mentioned here, 'Noah' has an airboat. :)
Eva Lapinska (10 months ago)
I like those all clearly knowing guys from Max plank, like they was living 64 000 years ago and met those species, how they call prehistoric iberian locals with their own spectacles : DDD and especially witty are their methods of so called "dating" items and events - nobody can prove opposite, because that all is a complete bull -it!
Huginn und Muninn (11 months ago)
thank you great video
Lupa 444 (11 months ago)
That's a big ol piece of pig ass pork in the fridge.
Simon Marner (11 months ago)
Thanks for the interesting little video. Good to see the actual painting in situ.
Simon Marner (11 months ago)
I'm astonished to discern from the illustration two oxen within a yoke (the "ladder" on the left) and a plough on the right. Unfortunately this is not clear from the actual painting. Ancient Neanderthal agriculture?
Samuel Bungo (11 months ago)
1:30 I'm speculating that someone was counting animals. Perhaps dots represent the number and animals in rectangles symbolize different species?
Sean Rosas (11 months ago)
Are we certain that the Neanderthal drew these? The National Geographic reported, in January 2018, the oldest human fossil outside of Africa discovered in Israel indicating that modern humans left Africa 120,000 years ago. Is it possible that humans arrived early and left their markings?
Prof. M. R. Millsap (4 months ago)
Wasn't a human jawbone found just south of there in Morocco which dated to 70000 ya?
Zǫlǫmunduz (11 months ago)
they werent in this area at this time. only neanderthals were
than217 (11 months ago)
I'm keeping my ancestor's tradition going 64,000 years later with my paintings. :D I'm also continuing the tradition of having back hair, grunting to answer questions, and just generally being disgusting to look at most hours of the day.
37Dionysos (11 months ago)
Imagine, a world of nature and art without republicans...
37Dionysos (10 months ago)
What communists? North Korea, which has made more moves toward peace in a week than the US has made in decades? Or the cartoon-commies in your mind?
twohseven (10 months ago)
interesting, sounds a lot like communists lol.
37Dionysos (10 months ago)
Except that in the US conservatives aren't conservative. Their "values" concern exploiting everything to death for themselves and they don't care what they wreck to do it.
twohseven (10 months ago)
idk about republicans, but the world would crash and burn overnight without any conservatives in society.
Che Boy (11 months ago)
wow
gee knee (11 months ago)
thank you. rock art in utah resembles this panel. the dots and red pigment are common and often look quite "primitive" compared to the pictograph inches away. i realize that neandertals are not thought to have journeyed to the americas. never the less the similarities are interesting.
Foxglove963 (7 months ago)
gee knee. The similarities are easily explained by entoptics, patterns seen during the initial stages of trance, these patterns are universal.
davicito (11 months ago)
It looks like they had pigs and cows inside a fence, and the dots will be the head counting.. So they had cattle?
twohseven (10 months ago)
skellagyook+ I call BS, on later humans coming to add to it.. that's just dogma, someone can't accept that there's more to our history than they think.
Huginn und Muninn (11 months ago)
davicito maybe it was a time-traveling cow half in one dimension half another
skellagyook (10 months ago)
The ladder-like painting is the part that has been dated so far (and attributed to neanderthals), not the animals. I have read it suggested by some archaeologists/proposed in some articles that the animals were added later possibly by modern humans who lived at the site at a later time)—its origin is uncertain. Animal keeping is not in evidence until much later; 6-8,000 bc or so (among modern humans, in just a few places in the world).).
Gary Chynne (11 months ago)
i'm 2.8 % neander and i'm still a fuckin artist. hahaha.
Dawei Tao (11 months ago)
That back part of an animal looks like a pig or boar. you can see the rest of it pretty clearly, with its head coming out of the right side of the square/rectangle.
sixtynine999 (10 months ago)
... like an animal looking out of its corral, with its head over the fence, perhaps?
Uco Asgalla (11 months ago)
120.000 years in the Castillo Caves without make a single line, but the neardenthals are inspired to paint, just in the momment of the appearance of the Sapiens sapiens. Curious… 65.000 years… 20.000 before what was believed until today… I think what something is wrong in this speculation… Because the nerardenthal authory of the paints, is a pure speculation… Or where are the demostration of this conclusion…? The reason? Maybe the dates do don´t macht with the actual theory of modern human expansion from África, and is more easy (and pollitically correct), attribute this to neardenthals -i repeat- without prove of it…? Or does it seek to make it less important? But look at the facts… Where is the most ancient antropomorph in the planet…? Maybe in África…? oops, well no…, that is from Spain… https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierolapithecus_catalaunicus Where our most direct ancestor appeared…? In Africa…? oops again… In Spain too… (at only 70 milles from La Pasiega) https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_antecessor And now, this incredible new datation of the cantabrian paints… Maybe the real history is a little different from what we have been told ... ? Well, in any case, I live right in the middle of the ten miles, which separate Altamira and the Caves of Monte Castillo -where La Pasiega is- and i´m very, very happy for it… : )))) P.D.: for mistery lovers only… In the caves located on the slope of Monte Castillo, is where the oldest paintings are. And this is the mount: https://www.turismodecantabria.com/imagenes/PatrimoniosImagenes/19846845-D847-9FC8-8F32-F4398C36CAA6.jpg/resizeMod/0/1200/imagen.jpg Does not it remind you of another (artificial) place, also with decorated caves on its slopes…? I mean this place: https://i2.wp.com/static3.sobrehistoria.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/las-piramides-de-egipto.jpg Did the authors know, what was their true origin, and did they evoke it ...? They were the builders of the pyramids, people from the "Iberian Mauritanian culture" ...? (only in spanish, sorry). https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultura_Ibero-Mauritana Well, this is also a speculation, but it has more basis, at least, than the neardenthal authorship of the Cantabrian paintings... Thik about it, if you want. Good day for all.
r mac (11 months ago)
Neanderthals brought art, modern humans brought war
twohseven (10 months ago)
Yeah Scotty, with that kind of snarky attitude, go ahead! We don't need that kind of snark in our gene pool! :'D
skellagyook (11 months ago)
Other cave art is found by modern humans from the paleolithic from Africa (sites like Apollo 11 S.A. and others), Sulawesi Indonesia, Australia (like the Bradshaw caves) and Europe, when moderns/sapiens were migrating both within Africa and out of it.
skellagyook (11 months ago)
Modern humans brought art as well (and both species probably practiced forms of war (there is evidence that neanderthals practiced cannibalism—but we likely sometimes id as well). It may be though, that certain sapiens weapons were more effective (than those of neanderthals), since sapiens had things like projectiles and weapons made of bone (which neanderthals do not appear to have had).
skellagyook (11 months ago)
Homo sapiens made compound heat treated paints (at Blombos, in South Africa from ca 100,000 ca (possibly for cave painting),
skellagyook (11 months ago)
Modern humans/homo sapiens had art (and things like bone tools and compound projectiles weapons) long before they left Africa or entered Europe. Geometric engravings are known from Blombos South Africa from 100-70,000 bc—before the date of this site in Europe—(as is jewelry, in different parts of Africa).
Justin Susini (1 year ago)
Just a few weeks ago a bunch of articles were released suggesting neanderthals lack of artistic talent rendered them inferior to homo sapiens and it could have been the cause of their downfall, now this. I kind of feel like there's a war going on behind the scenes.
Scotty Wills (11 months ago)
Nah i wouldn't read into that much because its hard to find any decent painting from these time periods. Remember this is like anything before 40,000 yrs ago. Not to mention that Neanderthals population was always considerably less then Sapiens so not as much can even be found and studied. No war just rubbish articles.
Ck T (11 months ago)
no war. this is video is BS. Modern Humans left africa over hundred thousand years ago.
Kathy McQuillen (1 year ago)
Okay, strangely enough, I see an airboat!!!
Frank James Bonarrigo (1 year ago)
until next year when they find a bone and it tells us modern humans were there 75,000 years ago. This shit is always changing
Zǫlǫmunduz (11 months ago)
no
Foxglove963 (11 months ago)
Vic Pepper. Morals, eh? From the earliest beginnings of the Abrahamic religions they have murdered and burned alive the "unbelievers".
Vic Pepper (11 months ago)
KOBKED-X depends on your reading of the proposed doctrine. With Christianity any historical reading of the cannon is likely to fail, but much of the morality espoused in the bible is unyielding in its significance, even in the 21st century. Therefor there is an element of Christian doctrine you can class as ‘true’ in a meta sense.
KOBKED-X (11 months ago)
thats why its called Science and not Religion...
Number Eight or Nine? (1 year ago)
Is no one tripping on the fan like structure? 64,000 years people... Other than aliens or time travelers, a map? OR is it a signature? Also looks like there were other colors but only the red is focused on. CAVE PORN!!!!!! The dots on the top and side look similar to hand prints, only upside down like it was dragged and then put in place. We got a crime scene boys! What odd thing could it be?
Gary Rumain (1 year ago)
The image of the animal in a box suggests a pen or coral. Which would imply that the Neanderthals were doing animal husbandry back then. If that is the case, then the dots next to the box could suggest a count. That is "I have so many animals penned".
Gary Rumain (11 months ago)
Yes, but there's very little that we know about the day to day lives of Neanderthals. So all we have to work off is the images shown here. If the drawing of the animal in the pen is dated at the same time as the drawing of the pen, then we must conclude that the Neanderthals worked out some way of keeping animals in pens. This may not be animal husbandry, per se, but it does suggest that they worked out how to trap animals and put them in pens rather than running around hunting them. Not only is this more efficient than constantly hunting them but it also allows them to be more sedentary (being able to live in the same place rather than constantly on the move chasing animals. Compare against the plains Indians who were constantly on the move chasing buffalo). This allows them to spend time in caves making drawings on walls. I think archaeologists should look around in the vicinity of these caves to look for signs of habitation. I doubt they would have traveled miles to get to a cave to make drawings. How much evidence is there that they actually lived in these caves?
skellagyook (11 months ago)
Nevermind. I now see the "paper brain" comment was directed at some'one else
skellagyook (11 months ago)
I didn't claim it definitively. I said, it was thought they might have been added later. But it is not known for certain—which should be emphasized—(and I imagine they won't know until those parts are dated). "Horses were domesticated after a few other animals." Yes, but all (as far as we know), long after the paleolithic (cows were domesticated around 8,000 bc), and there is no evidence that horse, or other livestock were domesticated by either neanderthals or by paleolithic-era modern humans.
Gary Rumain (11 months ago)
I think your brain is made of paper.
Gary Rumain (11 months ago)
Horses were domesticated after a few other animals.
hey joe (1 year ago)
So much we still don't know. Awesome!
beforeoriondotcom (1 year ago)
Neanderthals may have made art but Homo sapiens projected his mythology thru cave art. More at https://youtu.be/JqFkS2qYPNE
TOTALLY #FakeNews #Neanderthals lacked artistic vision - see The Human Birth Defect #Anthropology #History #SocialScience #Hoax Piltdown Man rides again!
In that book I also discuss the history of fraudulent claims in paleontology. A hotel in Germany put some stones in a circle in a cave on its property. Then they advertised it as proof of Neanderthal intelligence -- they re-named the place as The Neanderthal Hotel, and did a great business with anthro-tourism. Don't be fooled by #FakeScience
twohseven (10 months ago)
YOU are Fake News! I'm sorry but you plug your book and throw a bunch of buzzwords, dismissing the dilligent work of real science and archeology. Do you have psychic powers to know the truth about things 100,000 years ago, or do you use the whole scientific process to come to your conclusions? You can philosophize all you want about the human condition and the mind. But you're the one spreading fake news.
Mike2500L (11 months ago)
merryn i wasn't talking to you.
merryn (11 months ago)
spastic
Mike2500L (11 months ago)
Cuck
j c (1 year ago)
Wow!!

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